Darshan: A Conversation with Photographer Manjari Sharma

A step in creating the first Darshan image

Manjari Sharma is a photographer from Mumbai, India, currently based in New York City.  Before moving to the U.S., she worked for her national news daily, The Times of India.  In her most recent project, Darshan, Ms. Sharma and her team are creating photographic depictions of Hindu deities.  The extensive project is being partially underwritten through the grass roots support of many individuals throughout the world via the crowdfunding entity Kickstarter.    

Patrick McNally: Thank you so much for sharing your work and this conversation on The Daily Undertaker. Photography is a special medium. Although photography is ubiquitous, it can elicit a wonder in us that other art forms cannot. I remember specifically a book I had as a child that was illustrated with photos of three dimensional models of the characters in the story. Although it was clear that the work was fictional the use of photography brought me into the story like magic. 

What is the importance of using a photograph to evoke a spiritual response? Does creating this kind of image with an art form that is experienced as a reality, and that is used by nearly everyone in the world to create images of themselves and their families bring us closer to a relationship with the divine? What kind of response do you hope to elicit? 

Manjari Sharma: I hope that people realize that this photo is a constructed set and everything fictional has been concretely created by the human hands. So in a sense if you think about it, when every element that goes into the construction of this image aims for perfection the image takes form of god. The creation of this image becomes itself an act of devotion. The photograph is plagued with the baggage of being the record keeper. It has been used to lend a believability, so when people look at an image, they would like to believe it really happened. In this project the photos I make are events that really take place. The event is the making of the photograph, but the result I hope to achieve should let one forget it is a place they can go visit or stumble upon. It's interesting what you bring up because It's a suspension of that belief of reality that allows us to enjoy the mind of a painter or sculptor. My photo may be made of concrete parts but I aim for the final result to feel other worldly or unreal. Unreal moments can be fashioned out of concrete reality and that is my favorite challenge of using photography. 

Maa Laxmi, the first Darshan Image

PM: In western cultures there is an interesting iconoclastic tradition that excludes photographic depictions of the divine. Perhaps it is seen as base or presumptuous, like naming your child Jesus (thought this is common in Spanish speaking groups and the name Chris is quite common), or being too familiar, or informal with God. Perhaps there is also an issue of identifying God in too specific a manner. With a clear photograph, we see the exact color of hair and hair style, the exact complexion and skin texture. Still, there is a long tradition of representations of the divine in paint and sculpture. Do you find any similarities in India? Is there a kind of aesthetic taboo there about photographic representations of the divine? 

MS: I don't believe there is a taboo. But there is responsibility to treat a subject matter with respect and accuracy. There is little tolerance for mockery and inaccurate depictions are just not accepted and are poorly received in the culture. For example, Lord Ganesh shown in a painting or a sculpture or in any medium without the presence of his devotee the mouse will be considered a fault of the artist's rendering. Some may even go to the level of not keeping such a piece of art in their home and considering it a bad omen. There is no restriction of medium as such in Hindusim but the subject matter should be treated in the revered manner it deserves to be. In terms of names also people are often named after the name of gods and goddesses. Laxmi, Krishna, Ram are all commonly used names in India. In fact a child named after a God is done with puprose in order to imbibe the values of that God into the child.

A Team member working on  the set for the Maa Laxmi photograph

PM: Your work is painstaking in its accuracy. Each aspect of the photo must be correct to the tradition of the God it depicts. Is your work a kind of devotional? Is it a way for you, through your careful and creative actions to live out your relationship to these Gods? 

MS: The creation of the image independently of any organized religion is a very spiritual process for me. Painstaking accuracy drives human beings to raise the bar on performance. Spirituality and accuracy both require one to get into a zone of concentration, hence the result mirrors both those concepts soundingly. I have always been drawn to mythology and creative moral based stories. Hinduism is full of them. As I delve deeper into each mythological character, my awe continues grow by leaps and bounds. It makes me respect the tradition I come from extensively. The process of then photographically depicting these characters in the most convincing, accurate and spiritual manner, poses it's own technical challenges. Carrying out photographic process of course pleases a totally different / technical aspect of my mind. So to answer your question, Darshan is my act of devotion to art and to religion. Two aspects of my life that I will continue to be a student of.

An image from Ms. Sharma's Anastasia series

PM: It seems that you operate in this project under a strict set of rules as to what is allowed and what should not be allowed. Do you engage in any post production manipulation of your images? What are the rules under which you operate? 

MS: I try to keep the post production to a bare minimum. One reason why it is being shot on film is that it raises the bar on production from everyone in the team. It's not digital and I say that to crew members very explicitly. I want the colors to be as accurate and the proportions to be perfect. We are in the age and time where everything I am shooting in camera in this project  could be created in Photoshop... then why have a crew and why have people construct from scratch? I am not interested in changing the size of the elephants in my post production. Also I feel it's in tune with the concept. To be dedicated to the process and not give up, whether art or spirituality is a big part of pushing oneself to the next level. By shooting on film which is a more unforgiving format than digital, we all have to leave aside any sloppy post production dependency and spend more time pre visualizing. 

Manjari Sharma

PM: You mention that your parents are members of the extensive team of contributors on this project. What has this experience been like? Do you find that it is difficult to fulfill the roles of daughter and project director? How has ther involvement shaped your experience and the end result? 

MS:  Yes they are certainly heavy contributors. I am in the process of planning compositions and stories for the rest of the shots as I type. I find it is very rewarding or them to see me in the role of a director and realize what magnitude of involvement photo creation entails. It's great for them to learn of the intricacies of my process as I've been learning theirs my whole life. What their involvement has greatly influenced is my approach toward the subjects that play the role of the deities. Trusting that I may control all the aspects as much as I want, but to remember that the piece will still be need the universe's blessing to succeed is the greatest contribution from my parents. My parents have a way of saying things at the height of my most challenging moments that can put me at ease. Having perspective that if you have faith, you will receive the grace you need to complete something of this stature is an important one... and they do a fantastic job of reminding me of the humility a project like this needs. 

An image from Ms. Sharma's Homeland series

PM: One of the most fascinating comments you made in your Kickstarter video was a comparison between temples and art museums. Certainly those interested in art can visit temples to appreciate the artwork present there, and the spiritual can visit galleries to experience the variety and wonder of representations of this and other worlds. I have never really heard the comparison made as you have, but it rings so true to my own experience. What do we have to gain spiritually through a relationship with art? 

MS: It's a matter of context. When you isolate something and change the context you are studying it in, you learn about it from an angle you perhaps ignored or didn't pay as much attention to before. You have very accurately picked up on my intention, Patrick. I am looking for people who may not otherwise enter a Hindu temple to maybe go into a museum and get to study these images in a place that won't have the baggage that a house of worship or religion does. To look at spirituality, photography and mythology and study it's interrelation can be it's own subject for a PHD.  But to answer you succinctly, in my opinion, our reason to respond favorably to piece of art is not something we always sit and dissect,  but it's because the art invokes an emotional response of some sort within us. Art has a way to find a passage to our souls. The art we are drawn to is one way to learn about our what what our mind is composed of. In my opinion, our choices in life certainly define our character, so in a sense studying our relationship with a piece of art and what we get from it is also a self study. And a study of our selves is what ultimately leads to being a truer, more spiritually aware artist and/or appreciator. 

An image from Ms. Sharma's Haridwar series

PM: The art that has become cultural treasure throughout the world, was often financed by patrons who sought glory for themselves or some way to get closer to the divine. In your case, there is an opportunity for people on a grass roots level to underwrite a significant part of your cost through your involvement with kickstart. What does this kind of potential patronage bring to your expression? 

MS: Kickstarter or other crowdfunding websites give an artist access to reaching out the public at large. The crowd comes away with something of value in exchange for their pledge besides feeling good about funding a project they believe should lead to fruition. The same prints being offered on Kickstarter will have a different value once the project is funded so the rewards have an element of collect-ability. The greatest thing about a big crowd backing your effort is that it reinforces the power of the universe. This project as opposed to others I have previously worked on takes a team to create, as you know. Similar to what my parents remind me as I mentioned above, is the fact that it takes the universe, meaning a lot more than what one person can give from within themselves, for an event to occur. The energy of the building press and backers for this project is testimonial to that. Going back to create a project like this with this endorsement is extremely invigorating.

Darshan from Manjari Sharma on Vimeo.

PM: What do you think that art and ritual expression can bring to the experience of death and memorialization? 

MS:  The common thread between all of the above is the study of the human mind. Good art besides evoking a response in a viewer has the ability to become memorable. Art and rituals have a repetitive pattern.  Rituals become memorable through action, and art subjectively becomes memorable for a variety of reasons that are reflective of our nostalgia, memory, emotion and our sense of belonging and relativity to a subject matter. Art and rituals with their sense of repetition certainly contribute to memorialization.  As far as death is concerned, in Hinduism, death is looked upon as regeneration of energy. Some lead their lives believing that certain ritual expression can bring them closer to a desired after life of Nirvana. The study of how various people approach rituals is a fascinating study of the human mind, which is our common thread here. Exposure to Art brings us to decode, appreciate, evaluate and bring humor and reason to life from multiple perspectives. Darshan is about art and ritual expression, but to me it's just as much a study of the human mind and how we correlate and isolate a subject like spirituality. And spirituality undoubtedly is tied to life and death and everything else in between.

Another image from the Haridwar series

My Thanks to Manjari Sharma for sharing her work and thoughts.  to expereince more of her work and to learn how you can help to underwrite this project, visit her site:

ManjariSharma.com

Meat and Mortality: A Conversation with Katy Richards

Beef Cutlet 2
Gouache 2009

Painter Katy Richards has graciously agreed to share her work and a conversation about it on The Daily Undertaker:

Patrick McNally: Your paintings of meat are beautiful and expressive, but perhaps more importantly, they challenge us to consider our relationship with mortality.  While the cuts of meat depicted in your paintings are recognizably from animals bred to be eaten by humans, we know immediately that the meat that comprises our own bodies is almost identical.  What drew you to this subject matter?

Katy Richards: I began making these paintings after watching hunters skin a deer. I watched two men hang two deer from the their garage and cut the skin around the hind legs and then pull. The skin comes off like a glove to reveal glossy cerulean blues, purples, pearly pinks, and bright reds. It was just as beautiful as disturbing, and it triggered me to think about my own thin skin that shields my interior. The experience made me think about my body in a very raw and material way. It stimulated me in thinking that we are all potential carcasses. The notion of death is something that surrounds my work, but its is not my subject. I am much more interested in the body, its boundaries and materiality.

Meat Secretions 
Oil 2009

PM: Many people, even those who eat meat, are disturbed to think about the origins of their meal.  Some even prefer cuts that don’t remind them of the animal’s living form.  It’s easier to eat a hamburger and not think of the cow, than ponder the face of a fish, or the ribs of a pig.    Beyond sympathy for the animal, does is this aversion stem a way of avoiding the contemplation our own mortal situation?

KR: I find it very disturbing how disconnected people have become to their food, and the whole process of consumption. (When using the word consumption, I’m not thinking of the capitalistic sense of the word, but of the biological. A material being broken down and used up again; a cycle of decay and growth.) I believe that when you look at a fish in the market, one’s whose head is still attached and it’s eyes stare back at you, one can understand that this was a living and breathing creature.  But when you see that same kind of fish cut into fish sticks, the contemplation of any life before does not exist. Our culture tries to gloss over the ugly, the decay and the unsettling. The meat is pumped of sodium nitrite turning it bright red so it appears fresh and the women are pumped with botox for the same reasons. These procedures are done to mask the sign of decay to avoid the inescapable.

Stew Meat 2
Oil  2009

PM:  Context and perception make a great difference to our experience.   A smell or sight of meat that would bring pleasure or stimulate appetite could turn to disgust or discomfort if we learned that the meat came from an animal or a part of an animal that is not associated with food in our culture.    Does part of our disgust come from that very possibility of enjoyment?

KR: I suppose it’s like a car crash. You slow down to look at catch the glimpse of the horrendous, but then feel disgusted to admit to yourself why you are slowing down. There is an enjoyment/pleasure in something that is taboo or transgressive because it crosses the boundaries of the everyday. 

Beef Cutlet 4
Gouache 2009

PM: Though obviously the substance of a dead animal, the meat in your paintings often looks vibrant and alive.  Perhaps we can even imagine a personality in there somewhere.  Is this your intention?

KR: My intention was to create something contradictory. Creating vitality through the mark and using bright colors, the depicted body appears lively yet the viewer knows it is dead carcass. I wanted to connect the animal carcass to the human body, by depicting the carcasses in personified postures that allude to the human figure. My intention was not to shock the viewer in looking at something that is dead, but instead for them to draw connections between the materiality of the paint, the carcass and that of the human body. 

Gizzards and Hearts
Watercolor, Gouache Acrylic 2009

PM: What role do you think art should play in our contemplation of our mortality and our place in this world?

KR: There are numerous possibilities on what role art can play. My work and the work that I am drawn to explore the base and animalistic areas of human experience and impact the viewer on a visceral level. I believe it is important to use art as a way to explore subjects that are overlooked and often repressed in mainstream culture in order to broaden our understanding of our existence.

Glazed Stew Meat
Oil 2010

PM: Thank you for sharing your work and your thoughts here!  To experience more of Ms. Richards' art, visit her blog

http://katyrichards.blogspot.com/

Dressing the Dead: An interview with Designer Pia Interlandi

Pia Interlandi is a fashion designer, artist, funeral celebrant and teacher based in Melbourne, Australia.  Her work, often incorporating ideas of death, ritual and transformation, is varied, thoughtful and benefited by a great depth of research and experience. I am very pleased to be able to share Ms. Interlandi’s work and a conversation with her on The Daily Undertaker:

Patrick McNally: Clothing is very important to our sense of self.  We express our membership in certain social and religious groups as well as our own personal tastes and unique qualities through our clothing.  What does the choice of clothing made specifically for burial say about the person who chooses to wear it?

Pia Interlandi: There are (almost) no human cultures who do not engage with some sort of dressing, it is in fact one of the key determining factors in identifying humans in the history of evolution. In many ways our clothing is a second skin in which we present ourselves to the world.

This is no difference for the dead. To leave one naked for burial (which is something environmentalists have enquired about), is often seen as a sign of neglect or disrespect. Whilst the dead don’t have the same requirements of clothing that the living do; warmth, protection, comfort, it is the living who require the dressing of the dead.

A person who chooses a garment created specifically for internment is in fact acknowledging the end of life as an event, a moment as important and as sacred as birth. They also carry an awareness that this will be the last garment ever worn, and will in fact carry their body through its physical afterlife, symbolically and literally merging with their body. As my garments are designed to break down and encourage decomposition (rather than preservation), the message that people who choose to wear them is one of surrendering or the giving back of their body to the environment, an acceptance and embrace of biological inevitability.  

Designer Pia Interlandi

PM: Clothing that is designed to transform in a specific way when buried with the dead seems to have a sense of the secret about it.  Those who view and those who wear it will never see the transformation take place.  How do you as a designer communicate the value of this kind of garment?

PI: When designing I have undergone rigorous testing to determine the rate of fabric and fibre deterioration. Whilst these results are scientific they have meant that I can design my garments with intentional stages of transformation. I believe that these transformations, whilst indeed unseen, and therefore secret, are reassuring to the living. Knowing that there is something that will gradually unwrap the body, and reuniting it with the earth, with almost a sense of poetry, takes some of the fear out of burial. 

PM: Most clothing used for burial is a representation of who we are in life.  I have buried people in their bib overalls, in uniforms, in formal clothing, and have buried some with many different outfits.  Ritual clothing is something different.  The adherents of some traditions like Judaism and Later Day Saints, are dressed in special burial garments as a preparation to being presented to the divine.  In a way, I see your clothing doing the same thing, only the divine in this case is the earth.  What ritual meanings do you hope your clothing will have the potential of conveying?   

PI: I believe that my garments offer an option that both is representative of a person’s individuality in life and also symbolize their presentation to the physical afterlife, by which, you’re right, I mean the earth.  The ritual I hope to convey is one of establishing a reciprocal relationship with the environment, and the gradual absorption of the body into the landscape. 

PM: Your Body Sculpture work creates wonderful tactile and visual representations of our bodies transforming into earth.  What do you hope that viewers will take away from pondering this process and eventuality?

PI: Most people think that I have digitally altered the images, superimposing the roots, when they realise that all I have done is grown the pieces and with relatively unsophisticated methods photographed them, they experience an ‘ah’ factor.  I hope that viewers will then realise and see the beauty and magnificence in the natural process of the body becoming the landscape. That in many ways we are all linked to the planet we walk on and breathe in.

PM: Your work as a celebrant started with dressing one of your own loved ones after death.  Certainly participation in the physical acts of preparing a loved one for the grave is a wonderful opportunity for ritual and for understanding our own relationship with life, death and our loved one on a much deeper level.  Do you encourage the families that you work with to also engage in this kind of activity?

PI: Absolutely. The dressing of a deceased loved one in an immensely powerful process, and whilst it may not be for everyone, I gently encourage families to participate.

 The first time I encountered the body of someone I knew, I was shocked at how still and cold he was. It was so clear to me in that instant that whatever it was that made him alive, be it a soul, a sprit, chi, electricity between the neurons, had gone elsewhere. I found the experience positively enlightening and one that deeply assisted with my own grieving process. His body was not scary; it was just the physical shell that he left behind.

 With the dressings I have had the privilege of participating in, I have found that it is important for me to be as honest and relaxed as possible, explaining rigor and livor mortis as natural processes, and being at ease with maneuvering a person into their clothes. When families see that the body is not an object of fear or anxiety, they relax and grieve, and sit, and just be, with the person who has died.  The dressing encourages touch and tenderness. One of the most beautiful moments I’ve experience in dressing occurred when the daughters of the elderly lady we were clothing all started giggling when we were shuffling her into her tights, an item of clothing their mother had not worn in years. By the time we got to choosing her lipstick they were smiling through their tears, and reminiscing about all the funny things their mother used to do. The following rosary was a much more somber event, but through the dressing they were allowed to experience a wide spectrum of emotion.

I do warn families that the dead will ‘pass wind’ on occasion, but I’m yet to actually have this happen in a dressing.  

PM: Your dissolving clothing project seems to be a precursor to the burial garments, but it is also such a captivating idea in itself.  Clothing that is designed to dissolve is also like a secret; invisible ink for example.  We are left to wonder what was once there after the clothing has dissolved.  We are also drawn to ponder the importance of the process of dissolving instead of just interacting with clothing in its new and seemingly permanent state.  There are many analogies that can be drawn between our fleeting lives and the disappearing tissues of dissolving clothing.  Most prominent for me is the thought that the breakdown of my body from its beginning to it’s indistinguishable state in the earth can be seen as a beautiful process, not unlike cherry blossoms falling.  Can you tell us about your intentions and experiences with this work?

PI: At the time I began using dissolvable fibres within garments I was exploring concepts of fragility. Working with a cloth that would begin dissolving if your hands were too sweaty when you were sewing it, or, as I only experience once, would deteriorate if you sneezed on it, meant that as a maker I had to reassess my approach to the material.  On the body it drew awareness to the mortality of the garment, which in turn made the wearer aware of their own, human, mortality and fragility.

The dissolvable garments now work as a sped up version of what happens to the garment and body when buried. However, in a much more aesthetically acceptable way, which allows me to use the images as a way to communicate decomposition, without the disgust it usually conjures up.

PM: The research you have engaged in, studying the transformation of different kinds of clothing through burying pigs in your garments just floors me.  I have to mention here that ethical considerations were carefully addressed and approved in this work.  You have done the research on this material and I admire your dedication and passion in pursuing this special knowledge.  Can you share some of your motivations in engaging in this lengthy and controversial work, and tell us what you learned, and how you plan to make use of this knowledge in your future work?

PI: In 2009 RMIT supported me do a residency at SymbioticA, an artistic laboratory dedicated to the research, learning, critique and hands-on engagement with the life sciences, with the intent to study clothing and biological tissue decomposition and interaction. I was introduced to forensic entomologist Prof. Ian Dadour and over a few months we designed a project that would investigate at the rate of textile decomposition in a natural earth burial scenario.  I knew prior to starting the project that forensic research conducted in Australia involved the use of pig carcasses. Donated human bodies go to medical studies and not forensics, so pigs, with their similar size and organ orientation are the next best ‘alternative’. When Ian told me the number of pigs required to get statistically significant and therefore scientifically approved results, I almost withdrew from the project.

I had initially thought that we would use 3 pigs, and finding out the experimental design would include 7 digs, each recovering 3 pigs, totaling in 21. I felt overwhelmed, and after a few months of discussion with peers, I eventually negotiated with Ian that we would use pigs from the human food chain, and that they would be the pigs deemed undesirable and likely to end up in dog food. As such I would be acknowledging the lives of the pigs in a way that would not occur otherwise.  To Ian’s horror, I was going to visit the pigs before their death date, to give each a name, and to thoroughly wash and anoint each with rosemary oil for remembrance, prior to the dressing and burial. I wouldn’t refer to them as ‘tissue’ or ‘carcasses’, and so each received the name of an influential person in my research.  To distance myself from their deaths was counter intuitive, I wanted to be as engaged and present in the process as possible. 

Fabric recovered after burial 

The entire project, which stretched over the period of a year, has been thoroughly documented by film makers Kathy High and Cynthia White, in a film titled ‘Death Down Under’, currently in its final stages of editing. The documentary is one way in which the research will be disseminated; exhibition and academic publications some of the others.

PM: I look forward to seeing the documentary.  Thank you so much for sharing your work and your thoughts with us!  For more of Ms. Interlandi’s work, visit her website, http://www.piainterlandi.com/